Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Create wealth through Franchising. I'm your host, Kim Daly.
Whether you're a CEO, a military vet, a real estate investor, or simply in career transition and ready to take ownership of your future, with each episode, you're gonna learn valuable insights and hear inspiring stories from within the franchise industry.
On that note, my guest stories are their own. And as a franchise consultant, I do not make personal brand endorsements or earnings claims, but I do educate, motivate, and inspire dreams.
Now onto the show.
Welcome back to Create Wealth Through Franchising podcast and Kim Daily tv. I have an amazing guest for you all today. He's a longtime friend of mine, a former franchoice consultant, now a franchisee of the ERA Group. He's also an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship at Carnegie Mellon because he lives in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So all the way from Pittsburgh, a big hearty welcome to Chris Sincar. Chris, welcome to the studio of Kim Daly tv.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: I am so happy to be here, Kim. It's really a pleasure to join you and I'm really excited for the talk today.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: This is going to be so epic. We could go in so many different directions with this conversation, but my listeners love to know, like, what was happening in your life when you answered the call to franchising. So I want to go back and you start us where you want. But when did franchising first become a thing thing for you in your life?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: So, Kim, you know that I've been involved in franchising now for about 15 years, so this has been a long term path for me. But I will tell you that franchising wasn't where I first started my business ownership life. So for a dozen years before I bought my first franchise business, I actually was doing other types of business ownership before franchising.
So I bought my first business in 1999, which was not a franchise business. It started me on a path of realizing that there's a lot of different ways to work for yourself and there's no right or wrong way, there's no perfect business.
But what it is is as your business grows and evolves, as your life changes, sometimes what you're looking for out of your business changes. And so I started out by acquiring and growing businesses, sitting in the CEO chair. And I actually had three rounds of that in three different industries.
And in 2011, I owned a business that was a healthcare company.
And that business, because of some regulatory changes, the revenue went from this level to this level very quickly. And so I reached out into my network and I just started asking other business Owner friends of mine, well, I have a business now that's less complicated, less profitable. What else can I do? And I had a friend of mine who at that point owned multiple franchises. And he asked me, why have you never owned a franchise business? And I said, I don't know, I just never thought about it. And so he then started me on a path of looking at franchise ownership. And so in 2011, I bought into my first franchise system. And now 15 years later, I've been an owner in five different franchise businesses, four of which I'm still an owner of today. And that has been a path that Kim, has just been a tremendous personal and professional journey of mine for a long time.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: And so good. I love from entrepreneurship to franchisepreneurship.
Oftentimes, Kristen, because you were a franchise consultant for a while, you know this to be a true statement. The easiest people to convince of the true value of a franchise are former entrepreneurs.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely, 100%.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: When you run it on your own, you realize how stinking hard that is. And just having tools and systems and other brains to solve problems together, a community of people to like, work with, it's all so supportive. We just never look back. We abandon those entrepreneurship routes. Okay, but so along the way, you became this adjunct professor of entrepreneurship.
So let's insert that. And how, when you are speaking to your students about entrepreneurship, do you spend time also talking about franchisepreneurship?
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yes. So let's talk about that. So I sold a business, Kim, in 2005. And then I took a little pause in my professional life because at that point, my wife and I had a son was two and a half. And then shortly after I sold the business, son number two was born.
So I just took a pause at that point and did not immediately dive back into another business.
But one of the things that I did was I went back to Carnegie Mellon where I got my master's degree. And I met with the team in the entrepreneurship department and I had a conversation with them that we were teaching only one aspect of entrepreneurship. We were teaching how to start a brand new tech company or a brand new healthcare company.
But there were these other paths that were being underappreciated and under taught.
And so they looked at me and they said, go ahead and do it. And so I created a class that what we called entrepreneurial Alternatives. And so in that course, we really touched on new venture creation. We talked about business acquisitions, but we also started talking about franchising, corporate entrepreneurship, social entrepreneurship, all of these other paths to build a business and build your own kind of independent path in your life. And so that was in 2007.
And so for the last 18 years, I have taught a whole variety of entrepreneurship classes. Most recently, we've been teaching a class that is all about entrepreneurship through franchising.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: I mean, I think we should franchise that class.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting because we started doing this class a long time ago. And over the past five years, you will see that a number of top MBA programs have started to add in curriculum around franchising. Because what people have realized is that this is a really viable, vibrant, scalable path to business ownership.
And so the more smart people, people have started to see this, the more that they've started to adopt it and really started to find some discipline around how do we do this? Well, so it's absolutely a growing path.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: I so second that because I've been around since 2002 in this franchise consulting role. And back then it was like, you know, truly smart people don't invest in franchises, right? They start a business from scratch. And there was this sort of stigma. And I think in some cases that stigma still true. But to your point, more and more it's becoming franchising is becoming a bigger conversation, even among the highly educated MBAs and in the Wharton School of Business and at the Sloan School at mit. I know because I broke it into that MBA program at Sloan School, MIT and at Harvard years ago, and just been educating more and more of those graduates to the benefit of buying down that learning curve and getting to the point of making money and being building and scaling wealth in a shorter amount of time. If owning a business is about building and scaling wealth, and from day one, franchising is designed for scale.
I mean, if you can find the right partnership that feels right for the investor, you can have everything you want and need and go and build and scale that wealth. But again, we need entrepreneurs because we wouldn't have any new franchises. So we're not poo pooing on the entrepreneurship role either.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: That's the point of this conversation is the underlying premise of what I try to translate to my students when I teach at Carnegie Mellon is that the path that you choose in entrepreneurship is somewhat secondary. The primary decision point that you need to make is are you ready to work for yourself? Are you ready to create your own outcome? And if you make that decision and you say yes to that and you welcome that, then the path that you choose, whether it's an acquisition or a startup or franchising, is somewhat of secondary. You have to choose what's right for you. But you've already taken the big step, which is committing to really wanting to do it for yourself and believing in yourself. And that's the important step.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Okay, so you own multiple businesses. Can you list all the businesses that you currently own or have owned?
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yes. So as I said, Kim, I started out by doing business acquisitions. So I had three businesses in sequence that was a commercial printing company, then I owned a medical device remanufacturer, and then I owned a health care staffing business. Okay, so three very different industry spaces since I've started into franchising. My first foray into franchising was I was an area developer for Liberty Tax Service. So once again, completely different than any of those other businesses.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Okay, what else?
[00:09:39] Speaker B: And then my next kind of step into franchising, as you'll know, is I joined Franchoice as a consultant. But I think, Kim, the important part, right, and this is something that I think your viewers really will hear from you frequently, is as you go through your career, your needs, your goals, your motivations change. So I reached a point where I was ready for other things in my life. And so while I was a franchise consultant, right, I bought into four other brands in differing capacity. And so I ended up as an area developer with decalash.
I bought a supporting strategies franchise that we still own today.
And then in 2020 I invested in Aero Group, which is the business that I now operate on a daily basis. So I've juggled in between a number of different businesses and a number of different positions over those years.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: But it sounds like other than DECA, you, Light and Liberty and you like that B2B because the healthcare staffing, the medical device, the Aero Group, the supporting strategies, that's a business to business service company. So you like that B2B space, Chris?
[00:10:53] Speaker B: I think where I. Kim, it fits my profile, right? The important point is you need to find a business that works for you. My skill set is I'm a very comfortable business to business developer that it's easy for me, it's comfortable, I enjoy it, I'm successful at it. And so I find businesses that fit that profile for me.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: I love what you said about that. You know, a business may. Your desire to own a certain business may change as you grow and change. Because there is a myth out there that I hear often from candidates. Well, if the business is so good, why is he selling it? And it's like, well, because you run the course, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong. With the business, it means you've grown, you're ready for change in your life. And fact, Carrie North Carolina, who started out in Duncan, and then she told this awesome story of how she's owned three different franchises over the course of 20 years and each one suited her life at that point in her life. And now that she's over 50 and she, her kids are grown and it's more about, you know, what comes next in my life. She's now a Woodhouse spa franchisee know because loves skincare and she just loves the pampering and it's something she's personally into herself. And so for those of you who are listening and you think, wow, I have to invest in one business for the rest of my life. That is a strategy. But it's not the only strategy. And just because you meet an owner who says they're selling their business, it doesn't mean there's a red flag about their business. It doesn't mean there isn't as well, but it could just mean that they're ready for growth. Look, I was ready for growth about three years ago and I pushed it down because why would I want to upset the apple cart when I built this amazing business as a franchise consultant? But I knew that I was ready for growth and then I, the next year it came up and I shushed it down again because again, why would I, you know, why am I feeling ungrateful? Why can't you just be satisfied? Kim Daly and I finally answered the call and I launched the Z Suite, the Coaching Academy, because there's more in me. I want to give more.
When my kids are a little bit older, I 100% think I will be developing franchise like physical brick and mortar locations with them. But to the point I was making with Chris about, it seems like he likes B2B. I like these businesses that allow me big relationships with people. That's where I thrive. I thrive on the influencing and the coaching and the mentoring side. So the franchoice business and the Z suite business are very, very complimentary to each other and mostly, more importantly, complimentary to my personality and what I thrive at doing. And, and that's what Chris has just mentioned, and that's the point of this whole podcast, is that you would get inspired to want to find your own dream, your American dream through a franchise, and that Kim Daly could help you align the right opportunities to work. What's going to match your goals, your background, your skills, your dreams. That's the point of using an experienced franchise consultant.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Kim the key to this is that matching of a particular person's goals, skills, desires, objectives to a business, that's the magic that you can produce as a consultant because you really get to dig in and understand that candidate.
And you, because you've been doing this for so long and just so much great experience, you know these brands, you know people who have been successful in there before.
And so it allows you to be able to make those matches for your candidates. That's the magic of working with somebody who has as much experience as you do.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that, Chris. It's true. A lot of experience.
Okay, so let's take this back to your story. So you have entrepreneurial roots. You have franchisepreneurship roots. We understand that the franchisepreneurship route just allows more scale and freedom. But share some of the other maybe lessons you've learned along the way or thoughts that you have. For those who may be listening and trying to decide, should I acquire a local business? Should I start a business on my own? Should I reach out to Kim Daly? What are some ideas or advice would you have for those listeners?
[00:15:15] Speaker B: In every business, Kim, that I've ever been involved in, before I stepped into that role, before I ever pulled the trigger on an investment, I spent a lot of time trying to assess that business by using experts. Right. Because if I'm stepping into a business from the outside, I don't know what the inside looks like. I don't understand where are the landmines that I need to navigate around.
And so I will tell you that in my business, what. When. When I'm at a group and I'm deciding to move into a different industry space or evaluate a set of prospects that I'm unfamiliar with, the first thing I do is I engage an advisor and I start gathering outside information.
Regardless of what somebody in your audience wants to do as business ownership, they have to find good business guides to help them assess the opportunities.
So in franchising, that could be you. If it's a business acquisition, they need to go find others who have done that before them and lean on their experience. Last week, I had a former student of mine from Carnegie Mellon, graduated 10 years ago, had taken my class.
For 10 years, he's been doing exactly what you described before. He's been pushing down these motivations and these desires to go out and do something.
But now he's gotten to a point in his life that his kids are a little older, his career is honestly a bit more disruptive to his life that now he's at a point where it's right. And so he reached back out to me and he said, can you help guide me through this process? Help be my side advisor, Help me to assess what's good and bad? And I said, for this piece, yes. If you're looking at other industries where I'm not the right guide, but find somebody else, but for this, I can help you. And so, Kim, I will tell you, I think that's one of the best pieces of advice that I received early on in my career is before you dive into something, look for advisors who know it, who have been down the road before, and lean on them for their experiences.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Really good advice. So take us to the present moment with the ERA Group. So what is it about this business that just speaks to you that had you, you know, putting franchise consulting off to the side and diving full time into this business?
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Right now, with this business, there were really two primary motivations for me to make this change. So the first one is I get to work with, in this business, a wide variety of clients. So what Aero Group does, Kim, is we work with our clients to help them make sure that they're optimizing their expense structure in their business.
We do most of our work for indirect spend with. Every company in the world has indirect spend. Whether it's a manufacturing company, a distribution company, health care, college, it doesn't matter.
So the first piece of this business that I love is I get to work across industries.
The second piece is our business is entirely based on a shared savings model. So we only make money by saving money for our clients. And so that creates this complete alignment where we are in complete partnership with our clients.
And so when we sit down at the table, we're not sitting on opposite sides of the table, we're sitting next to each other.
And that feels great to me because it creates this alignment and this partnership with clients that really is very rewarding to me.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So are you out in the community every day, like cold calling and prospecting? How does that work for. I'm just. Just curious in this particular business?
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So in this business, Kim, what I have found is that my path to finding new clients and to really developing those relationships is all through referral partners. So I spend all of my time trying to cultivate relationships with industry Experts, with other B2B professionals who have relationships with my target clients.
And what I do is I lean into them and we share business back and forth. I sit down and have conversations with their clients and help figure out if I can help them or not. But all of my business is referred to me by somebody who knows what I do. They know that the client needs help and then they connect us together.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: For those who follow me, I'm smiling from ear to ear because this has been a very common theme lately. No matter what franchisee of what company I'm talking to, it is always the conversation is keeps coming back to relationships. It's about people. It's about relationships. It's about serving others. Right. So it's the common theme. Business is about serving people. And when you optimize how to serve people and you start serving people at a certain level, that's the success you're after. And when you're successful like that, then you make money.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Because, Kim, at the end of the day, if I'm successful in helping this client and I create alignment with them and they learn to trust me, they're going to refer me to everybody else in their network because now they know me, they trust me. They've had a success story with me.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And who doesn't want to save money? I mean, give me a break. As business owners, we all want to save money. Yeah. I mean, this is the kind of business, it's just fun because it works. No matter what's happening in the world or the economy or all of the things, this is a threat, thriving company. And what I love, and the reason I had reached out to Chris is that the ERA Group, I've been working with this company since 2002. At that point, it was called the Expense Reduction Analyst. That's what ERA stands for. And I mean, I placed area developers back in the day who built awesome businesses. The company went through a lot of growth and changes and eventually the franchisor did away with the area developer thing and now they've been acquired by a private equity. And like, there's this whole new surgence of growth, which is why I was like, oh, well, I love growth. So let's get some franchisees to share this amazing story because growth means they're looking for new franchisees. And so I thought it would be so fun to bring not only an ERA Group franchisee, but who better than my personal friend Kristin Car, who's so schooled in all things business ownership to come and share his story. I love it. I love it. Kristen Carr. It's so fun to see you in my studio.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: It's great to be here, Kim. It's really exciting for the audience. What I will tell you is this path of franchise ownership. Right?
It's. It's worth it. Business ownership is just more rewarding than working for somebody else because you can create your own outcome.
You can find something that works for you. And when you own it yourself, you're going to pour yourself into it or more than you ever would for a paid job. It means more. And because it means more when you succeed, it just fills you up with so much energy. It does. It's just. I love it. It's amazing.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: You know what? Here's a great question for you. Since you've owned so many different businesses, have you ever had a business fail, Chris, or have you always been successful?
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yes, I've had. I've had businesses that flourished. I've had some that were fine, and I'd have had a couple that were just disasters. The bottom line is, if I honestly reflect back on why some of the businesses that didn't work, what I will realize is that I didn't do the homework in advance that I should have done to create alignment between what was necessary to succeed in that business and what I was willing to contribute. Okay. And so when I've had three failed businesses in my past that if I look back, that was the common theme, is that there was a mismatch between what was needed to succeed and what I was willing to contribute. And so entirely on me.
So that the business didn't fail because it wasn't a good model. It failed because it wasn't the right match for me and I wasn't willing to contribute what was needed.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: And do you think that some of that is just your own personal growth journey? Like you just don't know what you don't know about what you can do or what you're willing to give until you get inside a business?
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Yes, I think some of it is that. I think some of it is, Kim, sometimes we tell ourselves that we'll do it even though in the back of our head we know we won't or we know it, we're going to have to fight it every day to do it.
Right. So sometimes it takes somebody else, a trusted advisor, to really push on that issue and say, look, do you know this is what's needed? And you don't. You told me you don't like this. Are you really willing to do this? Right? And sometimes that's what it takes is having that honest business partner advisor to push you on that and bring it to the forefront and force you to either commit to do it or commit to say, I'm not going to do that. This isn't the right Opportunity so good.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Our results never come from what we know. Our results come from what we're willing to do. You know, our beliefs and our beliefs drive what we're willing to do. And that conversation comes up a lot with candidates because oftentimes, you know, we have them fill out a questionnaire and on that questionnaire they'll say they'll rate their sales skills or interest in sales low.
And then as I get them into process and I teach them what their money buys, they're more attracted to the lower investment option, which is always a higher sales option. The reason it's a low investment is there's not a lot of stuff that means owners are going out and driving activity into the community. And so, but they like the price tag, if you will, of that investment. So then they're trying to fit themselves into this category that before we were talking about money, they were like, I don't want to do any selling. You know, and then I'm, I'm kind of stuck in this conversation. As you just mentioned, Chris, of like, for real, because you can invest money in a business, but if you're not willing to grow into that person who enjoys sales and sees it not as like a sales role, but as a consultative role or somebody who can be out helping people every day, it doesn't matter what it costs because you're going to fail, right? I'd rather you stretch yourself financially and buy a business that has more structure to it so you don't have to be in that sales role. And that's my job with you, the listener, when you come to me to make sure that we are in alignment, you know, with the things you want to wake up and do and you're going to feel good about it, it doesn't mean you need to have done it in the past or have skill. But like what Chris said, you have to have the desire to want to grow into an owner who. So this is my story of, you know, the first eight years that I was at Franchoice, I was an average performing consultant. And then in my ninth year I made history in franchise consulting, growing my business by 350% in one 12 month period.
What was the difference? I woke up and realized, oh, I'm not really a consultant, I'm a prospector.
So 13 years later, it's kind of a joke in consulting. Oh, I can't be Kim Daily. She generates leads in her sleep and I'm like, no, that's not a joke. I do generate leads in my sleep because for 13 years I have looked at myself as a prospector of people who want to explore franchises before I look at myself as a consultant. And that's the simple fact that one nuanced thought changed everything, including history in my business, but more importantly for Kim Daly.
And so when you come to me to wrap this up, that's the kind of conversation I want to have with you, because that's going to be very crucial to your success in the business. What is the thing that drives the greatest result in the business? Where's that accelerator and can I or am I willing to do those tasks?
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Kim, I think. I think that's interesting that you're kind of drawing a line here between can you and what will you. Right. Because, look, in franchise businesses, we are all as kind of capable professionals, we can do any of these things. Right?
Okay. The question is, will you? And you have to commit to it. You need to own it, you need to drive it every single day. It's that desire to do it that really is going to make the difference.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: I mean, it's so good to wrap this up. Chris, let's throw out one more piece of advice, because you're a legend. You've been up, you've been down, you've tried all these different businesses. You have such a wealth of information that you could offer.
So for that listener who hasn't yet reached out to Kim Daly, who's listening to me on their daily walks, you know, or who's just like, I think this is for me, but I'm afraid, like, they haven't put themselves into the arena yet. What advice do you have for that listener?
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Okay, this is really simple, Kim.
Your listeners need to just have a conversation and explore it. It's not committing you to doing something, it's committing you to take a look and see if it's right for you. The answer might be, it's not right for me now. The answer might be, it's not right for me, period.
But if you don't take a look, you don't know what you're missing. And so business ownership to me is something where you just have to dig in and take a look. If it's right, you're going to know it. And if it's right, it's going to be the greatest thing that you've ever done in your career, and it's so worth it.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: So good. So good. So what do you think is next for you?
[00:29:11] Speaker B: So my kids are now at a point, Kim, one out of college, one in college, one in high school. Right. So we're in a bit of a family kind of transition.
I have no intentions of changing my path for the next three or four years. I'm happy where I am at Aero Group. I'm succeeding. I'm helping my clients. So for this short term, I'm going to continue to plow forward and doing exactly what I'm doing. What this looks like in five years, I don't know. Because in five years it's going to be a very different life circumstance. And I don't know if I'm going to want to live in New Zealand for a year. If I'm going to want to go be a CFO for a nonprofit, I don't know. But I'll figure that out in four and a half years. But for right now, I have a very clear focus on what I'm doing and I'm happy doing it.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: It's a full circle moment. It just goes back to the business is a vehicle that's driving a personal, professional and financial outcome for you. For the moment you're in right now, it's not the end all, be all. It's probably not going to be the only business you ever own. It's just going to be the first business or the next business. So on that note, Chris, thank you so much for that setup. For those of you who are ready to begin your journey because you're feeling the call from the sideline to get in the arena to just have a conversation with Kim Daly, this is your moment. Follow the link in the description right now because you know that I can't wait to meet you. And Kristen Carr, thank you for blessing me for being a guest. I mean, this is an awesome moment for both of us. Thank you for being a guest right here on Kim Daily tv.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Kim, it was great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Such a pleasure to see your face again. Until next time, please don't forget that my name is Kim Daly and I want to be your daily coach.
You can find more content just like this on my YouTube channel at KimDaily TV. And if you're inspired to take the next step to explore franchises matched to you, please email me right now at Inquire KimDaily TV that's Inquire at KimDaily TV.
